Notes from Jennifer Auger's Interview on DD

Since no one else volunteered, I took one for the team and made very detailed notes. This was the most polished episode the Mottas have done, and they were quite subdued. Plenty of the topics that they emphasized were already debunked at trial, but for what it's worth, this is what they discussed:

- Bob and Ali introduce the podcast, and reflect on the polarizing nature of the Richard Allen case.

- Jennifer Auger joins the podcast, and discusses her journey into law, her background as a defense attorney, and her experiences with high-profile cases.

- Rozzi initially received the call for the case, and then he called around and hooked up with Baldwin. Auger reached out to Baldwin to offer moral support. Baldwin later reached out to ask for her assistance with the forensic pathology portion of the case, due to having a large amount of discovery to review. Her role and responsibilities grew and morphed over time.

- Auger was surprised by the interest generated in the case on social media, initially saying it “I did not appreciate how much it would affect what we did” before correcting herself and saying she doesn’t know if it affected what they did, and was interrupted by Ali to suggest that social media added pressure to the process.

- Auger discusses that there was a large magnitude of information available on social media regarding the case, and that in hindsight they should have had more people working with the defense team to monitor discussions. She asserts that some of the information circulated online was not in discovery and could be tied directly to the trial, but the defense team was unaware of those key details or of the relevance of that information.

- Ali inserts that the details of Brad Weber’s white van were widely circulated online and discussed since the early days of the case. Auger agrees that the van was a prime example of information that the defense team did not recognize as pertinent.

- Ali and Bob suggest that there needs to be a program/AI/algorithm that searches the web automatically to collate all data related to a case and when it first appeared online.

- Bob asks if they considered asking for a continuance prior to the trial, and Auger responds that it would not be appropriate to talk about trial decisions or strategy, but that no one on the defense team thought that social media activity would affect anything related to trial.

- Ali brings up the white van again, and articulates her skepticism that Richard Allen volunteered that information, she insinuates that Richard Allen was being asked questions about a white van.

- Auger expresses her hope that there will be another trial.

- Auger claims that the structural issues with the case all stem from IDOC.

- Auger states the the one and only time that Richard Allen was not recorded while in Westville was during his detailed confession to Dr. Wala, and her notes were shredded. So no one can know what Dr. Wala said to him or what she asked during that session.

- All three discuss Richard Allen being recorded in IDOC custody, and being recorded via camcorder when transported within the facility.

- Bob asks Auger to repeat her assertion that the only time Richard Allen was not recorded was during the wordy confession. Auger says that Rozzi would be the best person to ask, but that Richard Allen was not recorded when he had mental health sessions.

- Everyone expresses disgust that Richard Allen was innocent until proven guilty, and his treatment and conditions were appalling. Ali asks if his treatment in IDOC is a strong issue for appeal.

- Auger says she will leave that to the appellate lawyers, but that she believes there were a lot of strong issues, and that his treatment in custody is in the 2^nd or 3^rd tier of issues.

- Bob discusses that Kathy Allen told him on the day of her husband’s arrest, she went home and found a lawyer, paid a retainer and hired the lawyer who contacted Carroll County. After her husband was charged, Kathy Allen contacted the attorney she had hired, and he explained that he would need a large sum of money to try the case, which she explained she did not have. It is suggested that during the Safekeeping hearing, Richard Allen was not present, and his representation was not present because he did not have access to representation.

- Bob asks if they have been able to talk to any of the jurors. Auger says they have not been able to, and they would love to talk to them. She expresses surprise that they also did not hear from any alternates.

- Discussion on juror feedback and the importance of understanding juror perspectives.

- Ali asks about what the most significant evidence is that the jury did not get to see. Auger briefly mentions some of the topics from the pre-trial hearings (Odinism, cults, ritualistic killings, their interpretation of the crime scene, other suspects investigated by the State, and the letter Todd Click wrote to the Sheriff’s Office.

- Ali asks about geofencing. Auger generally explains how geofencing works, and the cell phone expert that was hired to interpret the data from the cell phone extraction of Libby’s phone. 15 SMS text message came through to Libby’s phone at 4:33 a.m. on 2/14/17, and for 11 hours prior the phone had not been connected to a tower. Based on the initial analysis from ISP Sgt. Christopher Cecil, it was believed that Libby’s phone battery had died sometime in the 10 o’clock hour of the evening of 2/13/17. Between the July pre-trial hearings and the trial, new software was developed to analyze iPhone data, and Cecil reprocessed the cell phone extraction, and determined that the phone was in a low power mode, and woke with a spike at 4:33 a.m.

- Bob explains that all defense attorneys are open-minded, and that the State is myopic and tunnels potential suspects.

- Ali initiates a discussion about the abundance of cell phone data in the Murdaugh Murders trial versus the lack of granular detail in the Richard Allen case. She also asks if some kind of jammer could’ve been used on Libby’s phone.

- Bob asks Auger what Stacy Eldridge communicated to Auger about why the phone may not have connected to a tower for that length of time. Auger responds that it didn’t have service for a multitude of reasons (it was out of the area, it was not off, it could’ve been under a piece of metal or in a Faraday Bag or something similar).

- Ali asks Auger how she felt about the judge’s ruling that allowed Cecil’s Google search of an Apple’s discussion group regarding accidental output switching, Auger says she can’t answer that, and Ali points out that Auger is following the Code of Ethics where she is not allowed to speak poorly of a judge (in which case, why the fuck would you ask her that ethical bait question Ali?).

- Auger explains that the State presented a timeline where Libby’s phone was under her shoe under Abby’s body from 3:50 p.m. 2/13/17 until 12:15 p.m. 2/14/17. The phone was not found until Abby’s body was moved. The defense team analyzed the data and the analysis concluded that wired headphones were manually plugged in at 5:44 p.m. and unplugged at 10:32 p.m. on 2/13/17 when the phone registered Audio Output In. The defense team felt that this destroyed the State’s timeline, and was the reasonable doubt since their understanding is that wired headphones will only register with human interaction.

- When Ali asks Auger to elaborate on what about Eldridge’s testimony made her feel that way at 1:05:30, Auger states “because someone else is interacting with that phone. Someone is interacting with that phone when they admit Richard Allen wasn’t there. He never went back.”

- Auger states that they deliberately subpoenaed the State’s cell phone experts immediately after Eldridge so that they would not have time to go home and research how the phone could register that result without an intentional connection.

- Auger said the defense was not allowed to manually inspect Libby’s phone to see if it was water damaged, they were only allowed to examine photos of the phone.

- A lengthy discussion follows where everyone concludes that the phone was not water damaged, and that no dirt/debris made it into the headphone port and then fell out 5 hours later.

- A short discussion about the geofencing data being excluded at trial.

- Auger says there is no evidence that the Bridge Guy video was manipulated, photoshopped, etc. and that it appears to be exactly what it is.

- The Mottas ask about the photo of Abby on the bridge that was not in Libby’s phone, and not in the Snapchat cache. Auger postulates that the photo could only come from someone else who had the Snapchat login and uploaded it from a different device.

- Bob has a gigantic rambling monologue about he felt about the trial as a defense attorney, and then asks Auger if she believes that Richard Allen is factually innocent. Auger replies that she can’t answer that as the Rules of Ethics prevent her from doing so. But she says that she believes in her client’s innocence, and that he has maintained that, and there was so much reasonable doubt in this case that she found the verdict to be gutting and it’s among the worst moments of her life.

- Ali asks about the testimony of Railly Voorhees, and that none of the State’s witnesses were asked to identify Richard Allen as Bridge Guy. Auger explains that Voorhees is friends with Kelsey, and she believes that unintentional revisionist history happened that impacted her memory and testimony.

- A discussion ensues regarding the composite sketches, and that none of the eyewitnesses gave descriptions consistent with Richard Allen or were asked to identify him in the course of the trial.

- Discussion of Major Cicero’s testimony. Auger represents the scene as chaotic, where Libby’s body was moved and Abby was lifted up by the torso. She does not believe that Richard Allen would be physically capable of the physicality involved in the crimes, and that more than one person has to be responsible.

- Ali offers her opinion that she believes Abby was cleaned. And that based on her observations of the crime scene photos, it appeared to her that Abby had been killed, washed, cleaned, and then redressed and that the focus was on her. Auger does not want to speculate in the event of a second trial.

- Ali asks Auger what about the crime scene itself stood out to her. Auger discusses the sticks and placement, and how it appeared to be symbolic rather than an attempt to conceal/camouflage the bodies.

- Discussion of the Odinism theory, which Auger says originated with Todd Click and his colleagues, not on the defense side.

- Criticism of the post-sentencing press conference where the defense team was disparaged.

- Todd Click is lauded as courageous for coming forward to dispute Richard Allens’ arrest.

- Auger declines to answer a question about the timing of Todd Click’s recent arrest.

- We circle back to the post-sentencing press conference, where Auger says no reputation damage was caused. But she is concerned that some might look at the statements made by unified command, and believe that they are unethical and responsible for a death, and might seek to harm them.

- It is asserted that Brad Weber changed his story entirely, and that he originally told LE that he was out servicing his ATM machines on the day of the abduction and he was driving a different vehicle. The defense team was disappointed that they were not able to include the brief from FBI Agent Pohl that contradicted Brad Weber’s final story and timeline.

- Bob asks Auger if the defense team was preventing Richard Allen from confessing. She says to please ask Brad and Andy about that.

- Bob asks if the defense team is pushing Richard Allen to appeal even though he does not want to, and she shakes her head no in response. She then says there are two new appellate attorneys, and it will be their problem. She goes on to say that it would be highly unethical to prevent someone in their right mind from making a plea if they wanted to.

- Bob compliments Auger and the defense team on their efforts, despite being curtailed in what they were allowed to present.

- Auger thanks the hosts, and specifically thanks Bob for his kind and encouraging words during the trial.

- Closing remarks, Ali thanks all the donors, and they emphasize the ongoing quest for justice and the challenges ahead.

I did not spellcheck or proofread my notes, as I have no braincells left and I will be going to bed now.